The Illusions and Realities of Daylight Robbery's Third Island Suite with Robert Waite and Nick Marks | The Sharp Notes Interview

A Deep Dive into Jazz, Collaboration, and the Power of Storytelling Through Sound

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Some of our most profound conversations often happen without words, music becomes the ultimate language — capable of revealing and transforming our perceptions, maybe even challenging them. Today, we're diving into just such a conversation with two artists whose latest musical collaboration speaks volumes: British jazz producer Robert Waite (known professionally as Daylight Robbery!) and New York-based pianist Nick Marks. Their new project, Third Island Suite bridges the luminous traditions of Spiritual Jazz, the electric momentum of Fusion, and the lyrical pulse of Hip-Hop, forming a rich and unpredictable dialogue between sound and spirit.

Following the success of Daylight Robbery’s 2022 debut Moons of Jupiter (which I spoke to Robert about that year), which garnered over five million streams, this new album pushes Waite even further into uncharted territory. Drawing inspiration from John Fowles' metafictional classic The Magus, Third Island Suite offers more than just a musical experience — it loosely soundtracks a psychological odyssey through illusion, self-discovery, and the playful misdirections of a master trickster. Framed by the striking artwork of Cologne’s Jens Roth, the album finds its home on Melting Pot Music, released both digitally and on vinyl.

Today, we have the real joy of speaking with Nick and Rob about how they built this intricate sonic world together — how pianos, beats, imagination, and basslines became tools for storytelling that translate into a complex inner musical journey between two creatives. We'll explore how collaboration became their shared vocabulary and how, through music, they found new ways to communicate truths that words alone could never fully capture.

Nick Marks: How's it going, Evan?

Evan Toth: [laughs] Hey, you guys. What's going on?

nm: Doing well, thanks, mate. How are you?

ezt: All right. Just made it here just in time, because we've got plenty of traffic and rain here in New Jersey. I got here. I did it. I did it, you guys.

nm: You nailed it.

Robert Waite: I appreciate that.

ezt: [laughs] Nick, where are you? Are you in New York City?

nm: We are very close to each other. I'm in Manhattan right now.

ezt: Oh, okay. It's raining by you too.

nm: It's not the prettiest day today.

ezt: No, but--

nm: We're both living it.

ezt: Your email says you've got a good day in there. I'm hearing your accent, and you're an Aussie, I guess.

nm: Nailed on.

ezt: Man, I'm killing it today.

nm: You are.

ezt: [laughs] Robert is my old friend. Robert, how are you doing, my old friend from the UK?

rw: I'm good. It's glorious sunshine in the UK. It's almost tropical. We're known for excellent

weather over here.

ezt: Is it really a nice day, or you're just pulling my leg?

rw: I'm pulling your leg.

ezt: Oh, okay.

rw: It's pretty gray and miserable as well, to be honest, but--

nm: That makes me feel better.

ezt: [laughs[ You can't have everything, guys.

rw: We expect that. You guys at least have decent seasons, but-- yes.

ezt: Hey, Nick and Robert, it's a pleasure to have you here. We're talking about Daylight Robbery. We've got a new album in the works, it's called Third Island Suite. Robert, you and I had spoken about Daylight Robbery in the past, but Nick was an integral part of this new project, and that's what we're here to talk about today. How are you guys doing?

rw: Very well. Thanks for having us. Appreciate it.

nm: Doing great, thanks.

ezt: This is exciting. This is New Jersey, New York City, and the UK.

rw: London town dialing in.

ezt: Absolutely. You're in London, right? London?

rw: Yes, I'm in London. I'm in North London. I don't know if you're into football. I can see the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium from my window. If you're into football, you would know that. Where else might--

ezt: I have actually a confession. I've never been to the UK. I've been to a couple of cool places, but I have never stopped in the UK. What's up with that?

rw: [laughs] You've got to check it out. You've got to come and see the queen and have some fish and ships. Not the queen. Sorry.

ezt: Which queen? I was just going to ask. Hold on a second. Are you talking Camilla here? What are we talking about?

rw: The king. King Charles, of course.

ezt: Now, Camilla is kind of a-- she got herself the title. She got herself a little bit of a queen title there though, right? What do we call Camilla?

rw: She did. I think people don't really see her as the queen. I think it was more of a bit of a

political move on her part. I think people see her as queen consort, which is more of-

ezt: That's it.

rw: -she happened to be married to the guy that was king at the time, but, yes, she is officially the queen, actually.

ezt: You know we Americans love our royals, maybe more than the Brits do.

nm: Not as much as the Aussies.

ezt: Oh, that's true too. They're yours as well, right?

nm: Absolutely. Head of state.

ezt: Absolutely. Cool. One of the interesting things-- Robert, I was jogging my memory of our conversation a few years ago already, with your first project. Was it the first album or that was the second album? No, that was the first album.

rw: No. Well, first solo project called Moons of Jupiter.

ezt: Right. Why don't you guys both explain to me, because as I recall, Robert, you're not a musician, musician. You approach this from a producer's point of view. Nick, you are a musician, musician, and you also-- Of course, we'll talk a little bit more about your own solo releases. You've got some new things coming up too. How did you guys connect? I think the most interesting direction to go is to talk about how exactly you fuse yourselves together to create something that both of you did.

rw: Good question. It is true. I'm not a traditional musician, I don't play any instruments. I wish I could. I've tried and failed many times. I do produce music digitally. I use Ableton like lots of producers. I started in the jazzy hip-hop space. As time moved along, I wanted to push it more towards, I guess, straight jazz. That's what I tried to do with this album. Of course, that is very, very difficult if you don't play an instrument, and that's where Nick came in. Nick is just a phenomenal jazz talent really.

ezt: How do you know Nick? How did you guys connect?

rw: I used to live in New York. I met Nick at various house parties in Brooklyn. The friend actually who introduced us was the guy who played keys on the first project, Benjamin Furman. These house parties were just filled with musicians, and they would just be obsessed with playing and jamming all night. I'm used to the kind of parties where people turn up and they just drink too much, and that is the basis of the party. This was a bunch of obsessive musicians, literally just jamming for hours and hours and hours. It was very, very cool to see, and Nick was part of that crew, basically. I don't know, Nick. [chuckles] Explain that. Why was that happening?

ezt: What was the conversation over cocktails? What do you recall about how you found out what Rob-- I'm calling you Rob. Usually, I call you Robert. Is Rob okay?

rw: Yes, all good.

ezt: Okay. How did you connect with what Rob is doing and what his vision was, and what was that conversation? What do you remember about that?

nm: I haven't thought about this for a little while, but I'm having this memory of going to a bar where Rob was DJing. I think I was probably texting with Benjamin, our mutual friend, saying, "Yo, what's up? What are you doing tonight?" He said, "Hey, I'm going to this bar. My friend's DJing. You should come check it out." I seem to remember that being one of the first times I met Rob. On a personal level, music and art aside, we just really hit it off, I think, in terms of our personalities, sense of humor, just common interests. The fact that it doesn't really matter whether he plays an instrument. He has an incredibly tasteful and deep knowledge of music that I happen to really like.

That's a really easy place to start getting on with someone over drinks or whatever's going on at the party. These parties are a real melting pot of different scenes, because it's one of those things where it would be like friends invite friends who invite friends. Benjamin and I are good friends and we're both musicians, but we come from different musical circles. Then you have all these different concentric circles and things linking up, and then that leads to friends who love music wanting to come and join, or they just happened to be there by dumb luck, and it's like, "What the hell did I just walk into?" These were very festive, positive, happy gatherings of people who just love music and enjoy playing together.

I think that was where Rob and I really connected. Actually, if I can also share a little bit, digging back into my history, you mentioned some solo projects. For a long time, I actually didn't have solo projects. As much of a trained musician as I was, I was very much a invisible hands kind of guy. I was pulling strings, doing a lot of writing, producing, composing, playing for a lot of other projects or as part of collaborations.

Actually, Rob was one of the first people who I started showing my original stuff to, and he was like, "Dude, you got to start putting this out." That was just another point of synergy and connection, I think, between Rob and I where we really hit it off. His support definitely had a big role to play in that music coming out.

ezt: Just walk me through the nuts and bolts a little bit. Nick, you have a song and you've got-- or an idea or something. Now, Rob likes to, at least from what I recall from the last project, nip and tuck these things and maybe move them around and use them as not loops because they're created organically by a human being. It's not as though you're just pulling these loops from somewhere. Is that still happening? What happens? You have a composition and then you talk to Rob? Rob, what do you get from Nick? Let's have Nick maybe start. What's that process like?

nm: Rob, maybe you can correct me on this. Every now and again, Rob might say something like, "Hey, man. Do you mind throwing down a little bit of base here or there?" I was like, "Yes, sure. No problem." I do little bits and pieces. Then Rob came to me-- was it 2023, I think, right? He said, "Hey, man. I'm working on my second album. I've got this track. Would you like to have a listen to it?" I said, "Sure." Then he said, "Check out this McCoy Tyner record too." I was like, "Okay. One of my heroes." [laughs] It's sometimes a little bit of a daunting thing when someone says listen to McCoy Tyner, but--

ezt: I have an autograph over here somewhere-

My name is not Leon, but I'll take it...

nm: Oh, wow. Rob sent me this track. It happens to be what has become the first track on the record. Basically, he said, "Just do whatever you want over the top of it." I listened to it, and I probably took two or three passes just playing keys over the top, and then I became like a human sample machine for Rob in the sense that yes, everything is organically played, everything is me improvising, or in some moments, I'm composing out the ideas that I think fit. Not with Rob in the room, I'm just doing it all independently. Then I send it all to him and I say, "All right, have at it," because he is the master sound collage artist in piecing things together or building out that narrative of the story.

It's a fantastic approach for me insofar as it's quite different to how I usually do things. It's cool to really do something and then see how it filters through someone else's ear and taste. Yes, that's how it started, just with the first track, and then Rob said, "Do you want to do another one?" I said, "Sure." Then I said, "Do you want me to just play on the record?" He said, "Well, actually." [chuckles] Rob, I don't know if there's more to add to that, but that's how it started, if I remember correctly, right?

rw: No, no, that's all very accurate. It was very iterative. It would often start with an idea that I would have. I'd throw it to Nick. I wouldn't really give him much of a brief. I think often I would just say "do your thing" because Nick gets it, I guess it's rare, isn't it, to find someone like that that really gets what it is that you want. You talk about a couple of references, and then almost everything that he did just sounded phenomenal, and he would send three or four takes. Maybe he would do one take as Rhodes, maybe one Wurlitzer turn, and maybe one piano.

I would, like a kid in a sweet shop, just take all of this stuff and try and sequence it and set it out in a way that was relevant to the structure that I felt the song should have. Potentially find some additional samples to fill some gaps here and there. Sometimes Nick would do something that was quite surprising, and I would almost scrap everything I'd done and then use that as the basis for the song, and then find additional things that fit with that. Yes, it was great.

Actually, if you listen to Nick's solo music, it's quite different to this, but there is what Nick brought to this project, which was not part of my vision, which I love, is the spaciness. I don't mean there's space in the music. I mean there's this synth electronic undertone to a lot of the tracks, which sounds spacey and trippy, and that's very much Nick's kind of, "You didn't realize you wanted this, but actually, this is something that is going to really fit."

I love the contrast between a lot of the traditional organic jazz sounds of Fender Rhodes or piano mixed with some of these crazy synth stabs, which you're hearing a lot in the UK jazz scene today, which is massively popping off. It's a scene that I never thought would be a cool hip, trendy scene, [chuckles] but jazz is very much back in the UK, and it seems to be going nowhere. There's a lot of experimentation in that way, which you can hear in this project. Yes, very, very cool. We hope to do more, and it seemed relatively effortless, I would say. Is that correct, Nick?

nm: It was one of the easiest collaborations. One of the easiest and the most fun, I think partly because neither of us came in with-- To be clear, Rob, this is his record that I'm part of, but Rob didn't come in-- I mean, he came in-- Remember you said you were really inspired by spiritual jazz and Alice Coltrane and stuff like that. From that, I understood there to be an openness to different things, and it didn't matter if we blended different elements from the different eras of jazz. I say lineages, but more the different eras. It's okay if we went a little '60s and then a little '80s, and a little-- kind of those all-- everything was on the table. Definitely, a lot of fun, yes.

ezt: Nick, when I'm listening to this story, I'm thinking this is almost-- You get to almost play a character with Rob's-- what he's prompting you to play. It's different from your own work because your own work comes from your own brain, so it's you, that's truly who you are, I suppose, and then it's also different from maybe if it's a work for hire, someone has hired you to do something or either play, or the other ways that you make your living as a musician.

This is interesting. I'm a musician as well, and I would feel very intrigued to have someone who understands music to email me or text me and say, "Hey, I'm looking for something like this," because it allows you to inhabit this new character. Did you have that feeling or thought, or does that make sense to you?

nm: Makes perfect sense. I think that's an excellent summation of how it felt. My background is in scoring for film, TV, and podcasts, so that's another string to my bow. I very much operate in that world that was-- Like a composer with a voice who is always listening to the director and what their vision is, and getting into the story or getting what-- In this case with Rob, I think he'd read-- I'm sorry, Rob. I'm going to forget the-- is it Phraxos? Was that the name of the book? There was a text or something. There was--

ezt: That's right. The basis of this album is inspired by this book.

nm: Yes. Before I butcher it, I will definitely let Rob explain further the concept and the story behind it, just as a prelude to that. The story that underpins this concept album was definitely something that I think I channeled a lot. I don't know if I thought about it so consciously, but I definitely channeled that a lot as I went into playing all these different ideas and different parts. There are a couple of tracks that Rob threw at me. He only asked for keys, but then I was like, "Urgh." I could just really hear this bassline, this whole bass thing." I wanted to get into that world, and it took-- as Rob said, it was very much an iterative project.

Once we threw in the keys, that opened up, "Well, what if we did this?" Then Rob would throw in another sample, and I'd be like, "Well, if you throw in that sample, I could harmonize that progression, and then we could throw in this in as well. What if we change the feel and the drums over here?" Maybe Rob can explain a bit more as well about the concept of the story behind it, unless Evan, you have another question.

ezt: Yes. Nick, did Rob-- did he give you homework? Did he make you read the book before you had to do this? Like, "You have to read this book."

rw: [laughs] That would've been a bit harsh.

nm: He didn't, and it's probably good that he didn't because I wouldn't have done it. [laughs]

ezt: He was like, "Nick, tonight we're reading pages 1 through 35, and you'll produce some sounds based on the first three chapters of the book."

nm: If he said to me, "This is going to be a feature film," I would've read the book back to front, two or three times, no worries, but it's like if we're making a concept album, I think the vibes were probably enough to get me going. There's a lot of inspiration. There's a lot in the music to inspire me just from that alone.

ezt: Right. It's like Lord of the Rings. Rob, what's the book? Tell us about the book, how you found the book, and how the book works into this project?

rw: Yes. The book is The Magus, which is another word for powerful magician, and it's by John Fowles. It's a book for my teenage years. It was quite popular in my crew of friends in school. It's basically an English teacher who takes a job in a remote Greek Island. He's bored so he starts hiking, and he meets this man who lives in this grand house up in the hills, and just gets sucked into his friendship, but also he puts him through a bunch of psychological mind games. It escalates and escalates and gets to the point where he can't differentiate between reality and these games.

I won't spoil it, but it's an incredible page-turner. There's actually a movie with Michael Caine, which is terrible, so I don't actually advise that you watch that. Just read the book.

ezt: Okay. Fair enough.

rw: I love the book. As this project was sort of-- As I got the first few songs, I was just like, "Oh, what's this? Where is this going? What's the wrapper around it? What's the theme?" It's difficult. If you're not writing music with words and it's just instrumental, it can be quite difficult to bring it all together. I had a friend who is in a different band, and he said, "Look, you're not just going to land on an idea. Think about what the music makes you think of. Close your eyes, listen to the music. What are some images or some thoughts that get thrown up in your head? Be led by that and slowly build it."

I was listening to the first few songs, and I just started imagining an island, a house that was quite opulent, perhaps maybe some strange happenings, and it just reminded me so much of that book. Then I thought, "You know what, this could be a thing. Actually, this could inform songs that are missing from the narrative."

You'll have your hands on a copy soon. There's this loose narrative that is displayed by the track titles and obviously the music. The idea is to not make it super on the know, it isn't exactly like the book, but it gives the listener clues as to what might be happening. You can make your own story as to the beginning, the middle, and the end. It helped me order the tracks, and helped me start producing tracks that were missing in the narrative. It was cool. It's a semi-concept album, but really, it was just an idea that brought the whole thing together. It massively informed the artwork as well and the name. I'm really happy with the way that it turned out.

ezt: Interesting. To do the project this way, you have to be comfortable with a certain serendipity happening, and I guess you were. You had this vision. Do you recall any times when Nick maybe exceeded what you were hoping for, even though he knew what your direction was but he didn't really know the inside-out inspiration there?

rw: Yes. 9 times out of 10, I was just blown away with what he had done. Of course, there was feedback here and there, or we discussed taking a track in a different direction. Just the diversity of playing. I don't know what your favorite track is, Nick. Mine is the last track. It's called The Descent, and it's basically like this guy has tried to escape this island. He's realized that there is no escape, and he starts to go mad.

ezt: Stop. You're ruining the book.

rw: [chuckles] Yes. The last track is very, very dark, and the way that Nick plays is absolutely perfect for somebody in that frame of mind. Someone who realizes there is no hope, and that they are going into a dark, dark space. His playing on that track almost reminds me of-- Do you know the Ethiopiques audio series? It's basically a bunch of Ethiopian musicians who release music under that banner of Ethiopiques. Anyway.

ezt: No. Interesting. I don't.

rw: It almost sounds a bit Ethiopian, the keys playing in that, and just super inspiring. What we were talking about earlier in terms of Nick having to take a brief and step into these different characters, his ability to do that track by track, scene by scene, was just phenomenal. I think for me, it's like I can only make the music that I make. That's essentially all I can do. If someone said, "Hey, Rob, why don't you have a go at Polka or some Eastern European folk music?" Zero chance. Whereas Nick would be like, "You know what? Yes. Give me half an hour," and he'll just do his version of that. It's a real pleasure to be able to tap into that resource and to have them do your bidding essentially.

ezt: Which, Nick, really a lot of people can't do. You have a lot of different musicians out there who can do what they do, but that doesn't mean they can really approximate everyone's desires and wishes for what they would like them to create. Between Robert and between some of the other work that you've done for scoring, or whether it's making a main title theme to a podcast or something, what can you say about following the directions of what others are giving to you, and how is that similar or different from what your experience was with Rob?

nm: As you say that, I think of the phrase that Quincy Jones had on the top of the door at the We Are the World recording, which was, "Leave your ego at the door." When he had like 40 of the greatest performers, songwriters of all time coming into the studio for one session. I guess--

ezt: Of course, nobody left their ego at the door.

rw: Yes. [laughter]

nm: It was aspirational, I guess.

ezt: Yes.

nm: Not to sound woo-woo as I say this, but I do think that I see myself as the vehicle through which the music comes through. I'm working on a project, there are discussions about what's Rob looking for, what does he want, or if it's scoring a main title sequence or something, what's the director looking for? I go away and I just listen to-- I might listen to a bunch of music. I'm not doing anything active, I'm just listening at that point, and noticing things that I think make that style what it is, or Rob may say, "I really love the spaciness of this," but the words-- as Rob clearly articulated, space can mean a few different things.

It's putting yourself in their shoes and thinking about what do they mean by that word. Nothing that I'm doing is about-- It's not about me making something that I want or I think I want. I don't even think about what I want. I start hearing a bunch of ideas that coalesce around these themes or stylistic things or instruments or something in the arrangement, and then I just start getting those down. I see it like I'm a doctor, almost. Just like, "What does the patient need?" "Okay. I think it needs a bit more of this, a bit more of that."

It crosses a certain threshold and then I might say like, "Okay, we've arrived at a point where I think this is pretty listenable, or it delivers on some of the points." Rob may think like, "Okay. I said I did two or three texts." I'm like, "I think there's some stuff in here. Let's see what Rob thinks," because there's no point-- I don't really see any point agonizing over it or trying to perfect it. It's just like, "Let's just see if the vibes are right." Rob will come back and say, "Yes, these are great. What if a little bit of this?" It's like, "Cool." You land in a place, check that we're in the right zone of interest, and then if we are, we refine it and keep going. That's very much just how I operate.

One thing I'll say, with Rob's project, we did this in our own time. I'm used to having to work on deadlines that were needed by yesterday, so it's always, "We need this and we need it quickly." That way of thinking means that you have to be a bit divorced from what you're doing. You can't get particularly emotionally attached to anything because you also don't know that you do two or three rounds, and then someone says to you, "Hey, we actually want to go this way," or, "We want to go back to that." Things can change very quickly. I'm all about just being the instrument through which things happen and just arriving at wherever the music needs to be.

ezt: Interesting. Then back to you, Rob. When you get this stuff, you share the idea with Nick. Nick shares his couple of takes with you. Now, how do you sort through everything? How do you keep all of those pieces organized, and the thoughts organized, and maybe the emotions organized? Do you have a-- it's like a folder of different emotions or something. How do you interact? What are the trials and tribulations of interacting with that stuff once it reaches you back? How do you sort through it, I guess, is what I'm asking?

rw: It's a good question. I have a very specific way of doing it. I have a big multi-track, like a door, so digital audio workspace, and I've got all of my different layers up. I then place all of Nick's layers. He will do a take across the whole song, so I can just throw them all in and they'll line up. Sometimes there'll be 2, sometimes there might be like 15, and I'll just listen to every single one.

nm: Sorry. It's way too much. [laughter]

Robert Waite

rw: Hey, sometimes you've just got to do it until it feels right. I'll listen to absolutely everything, maybe twice, but as I go through, I will instantly know. It will just hit me in the face. I'm like, "That is brilliant. That bit is-- I'm going to use that as the hook," or I'm going to use that part of the solo, and actually, I don't like the rest of the solo because these three takes here are superior. Some of the solos on the project, which is Nick playing, are different parts of various solos that he had done, and I've basically chopped it and brought it together.

Like I said, it's not overly mathematical or logical. It's just a feeling that you get. When you hear parts that you like, you instantly know that that's what you want, and you just go through the whole thing. Of course, it's a process of elimination. You can't have every single part that you enjoyed, but it ends up being a bit of a collage puzzle where you have to create, make sacrifices, and turn it into a bit of a creative problem-solving challenge.

Yes, it can take hours. It really can sometimes take a long time, but it's just so worth it because the end product just ends up being this thing that you really love. Perhaps it's not finished. Perhaps I can then go, "Okay. This is my version, Nick." Send it back to you, "What do you think? What are you hearing? Do you enjoy this?" Because it's not just my way or the highway. Nick needs to agree with where I'm going with it or feel like he can feed back and say, "You know what, I don't think that's up to scratch. Let me try again, et cetera, et cetera." It can be quite a laborious process, but one that I enjoy immensely.

ezt: Here's a weird thought that just is popping into my mind. It's almost like people using AI, people using ChatGPT or Grok or whatever people want to use now, but it's almost as though when you think about it, you're prompting Nick to create these things. He's creating them for you, and you're then reworking them. It seems like the way people are beginning to use these AI things nowadays. They say, "Hey, give me this thing." Then they get that thing, and then they massage that thing into being really more truly what they were aiming for. Is that a little bit of a crazy comparison? Does that resonate with either of you?

rw: Yes, I know. In a way, Nick is like a generative AI piano. [laughs]

ezt: Nick, are you real right now or is this a simulacrum of you on the screen? Are you a real person?

nm: I don't know if I'm sentient anymore. I think I just follow instructions.

ezt: [laughs] It's a credit to you because you're doing the heavy work of AI, all this magic that AI pumps out. I know it gets a lot of hate because it's not a human being, but at the same time, I'm always incredibly impressed with what it creates, obviously. It's way better than people give it credit for.

nm: It's hard not to be impressed with a machine that you can ask it a question about a recipe or how to answer an email, and within two seconds, it just gives you this answer that is either on point or you're like, "It's pretty close to something that seems reasonable."

ezt: What if I were to say, "Hey, what if you were creating this project with AI instead?" Rob, what do you think the difference would be if you had some sort of a program that was creating music that you were describing to it to create? How do you think you would interact with the technology rather than the human being?

rw: Yes, it's true. I have experimented with some AI music tools. I don't think the technology is quite there yet, but I think it really will be soon. AI, a few years ago we weren't even talking about it, and now it's everywhere. It's clearly going to be something that's going to impact artists and the music industry in a pretty hardcore way. How would I interact with it differently? It's hard to say. The basic question that I posed to Nick on that first track, which was, "Check out this drum break, this bass line, and the sample. What do you think? Would you mind performing a McCoy Tyner-esque piano solo and making sure that it's in time and in key and all of that stuff?"

I'm sure it would generate something back, but would it have the same personality, would it have the same feeling? Probably not. Could a tool like that in the future be useful for artists? I think it could be, I really do, but are you going to have that personal relationship in the way that me and Nick do where we're joking, we're having fun? We're coming up with ideas which were completely irrelevant to the original question, which an AI can never do. Yes, I don't know if I've answered your question there, but--

ezt: You're irreplaceable, Nick. We don't want to be without you.

nm: That's very kind of you to say. I hope that all musicians remain irreplaceable. There are two things that come to my mind in this way. One is what I think is-- one of the things that's pushing this advancement is almost like the gamification of music. We've all had gatherings with friends playing Guitar Hero or something like that. Maybe that gets now replaced by, "Oh, I want to combine Metallica and Beethoven and John Coltrane and see what AI does with that." That could be a fun activity to do. It might not be music you'd want to listen to when you're going for a walk or something, or contemplating--

ezt: Right. It's like an exercise, just like an exercise, and can we do this?

nm: Yes. One thing that I think is quite underrated maybe or a distinguishing factor, is that music isn't just the music. It's the stories behind the music. It's about what brought the musicians together, the tensions in the band. How the whole thing nearly didn't happen, how they went way over budget. How the whole thing was a complete disaster but they got it over the finish line. Then Leonard Cohen, Hallelujah, no one really listened to it. The rest is history. You know what I mean?

ezt: Right.

Nick Marks

nm: The stories behind what makes an iconic song or an iconic album, or an artist what they are, is that humanistic element. I don't know if that romance is the same with AI. I'm decoupling quality of what AI could do. Like, yes, if you tell, "Hey, AI or whoever, give me a Jimmy Garrison bass line or a Philly Joe Jones bass line with Miles playing with--" I don't know, I'm trying to think of-- Kamasi Washington. You could just throw all these things together and it will give you something. Maybe it's a cool vibe, but will we stay as hooked to it in that same way? Do you know what I mean?

ezt: Yes.

nm: Because if we all know that it's AI, it's a little bit like you see a picture on the wall-- and I'm quoting this from the legendary Australian, Tim Minchin. He talked a bit about-- I heard a speech he gave, and he was talking about you see a picture on a wall and it looks like a painting or it looks like a photograph. I'm going to mix this up now, but you get closer and you realize that, "Oh, it's actually a painting," or whichever way it is. You go, "Wow, a person did that. I thought it was a photograph. It's actually a painting, though."

Then if you do the same thing and you look at it and you go, "Oh, but it was done by AI," you're like, "Oh, cool. It tricked my mind. It was a Jedi mind trick for a second, but yes, a machine made it."

ezt: Yes. Nick, we talked about the work that you're doing, being prompted from Robert, but why don't you talk about your own composing right now? You've got something-- Why don't you tell everybody what you have coming up as well? You have a release coming as well. How is it different or similar to what people might expect by hearing this release?

nm: I'd say it's different in that I constructed the whole thing myself solo from the ground up. I didn't really work with samples. I didn't have anything prompting me. I just, yes, started back actually at the beginning of 2020, just plotting out some ideas that became demos. Then I fleshed them out and built up these arrangements now because it was the time of the pandemic or a little bit post-pandemic. We still had social distancing and all that.

ezt: You had a little extra time on your hands.

nm: I had some extra time but also I had to work around completely new parameters. We couldn't go in the studio without doing tests, and I couldn't have more than two or three people at a time. One of the releases that you're referring to ended up becoming a trilogy three-part EP series. Actually, the third EP I released came out in February. The whole idea was to introduce these different sonic planets as part of my overall musical universe, let's just say, for lack of a better word. It's cinematic, jazz, electronica. There is some hip-hop and R&B, a little bit of Neo Soul, there's classical. The idea was to create something that took listeners, in a cohesive way, through these different worlds, but all felt threaded together.

That idea that I just explained is very much prevalent in Rob's record, because there are some almost borderline rock elements in some of the tracks. "Truth by Trial", which was the latest single that came out to me, had this mix of jazz, but almost rock and a bit of fusion in it as well. Then there were some gospel choirs things going on in there too. I think it's just probably a reflection of how I grew up listening to Beethoven, Miles Davis, Jamiroquai, Fatboy Slim. My brother loves Metallica, so I heard a lot of Metallica. It's just this completely all these different things coming at me at once.

ezt: Yes, a lot of different things.

nm: It's all in there somehow. I don't know.

ezt: When is the next record for you coming out?

nm: Right now, I am wrapping up on a new mix tape that's going to come out in two parts. There's going to be a more jazzy beats version of the mix tape, and then there's going to be a more-- let's say a different side, which will be an electronica version of that. I am in the process of doing that now. We just actually recorded in Manchester last week, Some Strings, with The Untold Orchestra. Really excited about that.

ezt: What do you mean by mix tape? What does that-- What do you mean by mix tape?

nm: It's a very good question.

ezt: [laughs] Thank you.

nm: I think I used the word mix tape to describe works that have been cooking for a minute, but didn't necessarily neatly fit into things that I'm currently doing. The Cinematic Chromatics series has a certain aesthetic, and this to me was-- I often have ideas, and then it's like, "Well, where do I put them?" The idea of a self-generated mix tape was-- This was just a mix of songs that I've been writing. It's a little collection, and it is to be a interim release in the lead up to what I'll do an album next year.

ezt: Nick Marks rarities.

nm: Kind of, yes. Just like little snacks that I've had on the hard drive that doesn't do much on the hard drive, so I may as well get them out there.

ezt: I bet I know a guy who could take some of those bits and pieces, make something out of them. What do you think, Rob?

rw: I'm up for it. Absolutely.

nm: Yes.

Robert Waite w/ a copy of his latest creation: Third Island Suite

ezt: Well, I guess the next question, maybe to you, Rob, without giving away any secrets here, you both seem to be coming from similar places, even though you have different gifts and tools to bring those sounds to life. What other ways are there that the two of you can work together to create something new? It's almost like-- be interesting to see the roles reversed, as I'm saying, where some of Nick's thoughts, maybe there's some way, Rob, for you to flesh out some of Nick's thoughts or something somewhere.

rw: We have talked about that. We've been in conversation with another label that would be interested in putting perhaps another project out that we did together. As we talked about earlier, life is just so hectic, and we've not got round to it.

ezt: Sure.

rw: Instead of autopilot going into the same process and mode that we did for this project, we did talk about intentionally doing it differently. Why doesn't Nick start something off instead of me? Send it over, I'll have a think about it. I'll apply my additional layers or additional ideas to that and send it back.

ezt: He's going to make you read a book now.

rw: [laughs] Yes, exactly. I'm open to it. Every time you do this or you work with someone different, you're just learning so much. If I didn't have to work or if money wasn't an object, that's what I would do every day is I would work with different people, I would learn a new program, I would learn a new piece of hardware, and it would just be heaven. It really would.

ezt: Really cool. I know you guys are both good listeners. You love music. You're both deep music lovers. Rob, last time you and I spoke, we talked a little bit about some records that you were listening to at the time. Is there anything either of you are listening to right now, whether it's old or something new, or just something that's in your world that you're really enjoying that maybe our listeners would enjoy hearing about or learning about?

rw: God, that is a difficult question. Nick, have you got something ready to go?

ezt: I threw it right at you. Robert, you've always got records down on the floor somewhere. What are you listening to?

rw: I do. Look, I would say for listeners in the US, particularly New York, New Jersey, jazz is a massive thing, but there are some incredible players, young players in the UK that are super inspiring. I can mention some of those people, just to big them up. I think people should really check them out. Yussef Dayes is an amazing drummer. I saw him not that long ago. He's got a new album out called Black Classical Music. Again, super diverse. Staying true to a lot of his older influences, but a new take on all of that.

Alfa Mist, he's a piano player, keys player. He's got a new project coming out with a new drummer. Also just incredibly inspiring. Again, respecting the history of it, but pulling it into a new place. There's another guy called Kamaal Williams who, in the way that Nick does, takes jazz more into an electronic space, but not forcing it together. It almost feels like it's been a genre all of its own forever.

Oh, one last person I would say, and actually this is one of my favorite artists at the moment, Nala Sinephro. She's pioneering what is called ambient jazz. Just mind-blowing stuff. Check out Nala Sinephro. She's a Belgian harp player that also plays synth as well.

ezt: Very cool. All right. Nick, you had a couple of minutes to think there. Rob was on the spot there and he made it work, but we're sure you're ready now too.

nm: I would say I've been listening lately to the new record from Salami Rose Joe Louis. I think she's a really incredible singer. Just on some of those names, Makaya McCraven, the drummer who comes to mind.

ezt: Sure. He's so great.

nm: Yes. He's doing some really exciting stuff. I've been digging back through things like Marcos Valle's collection, his discography. I don't have a record that jumps to my mind right now. I actually saw, at The Sultan Room, Adrian Younge. That was a great show. He's just really fantastic composer, bass player, arranger. He's done a bunch of film scores too. Runs the label Jazz Is Dead. They brought out Arthur Verocai in New York not long ago. Another artist I'm a very big fan of. I'm finding myself in Brazil a little bit at the moment.

ezt: It's rainy March Tri-State New York City area. There's no better place to be than Brazil in your mind.

nm: I think so, musically, culturally. I went there when I was 20 years old and spent a month, did some volunteer work, and learned Portuguese. I had the best time. Before that, the music was already having a huge impression on me. I just do a lot of detours down there mentally, musically.

ezt: It's a great season for one of my favorite-- really one of my favorite songs of all time. It's also a Brazilian classic, the Waters of March.

nm: Don't know if I know that one.

rw: No, I don't know that one.

nm: I have to check it out.

ezt: Oh my goodness. Well, it was a Jobim song, and it's been covered 1,000 times. You

might know it. You might hear it and go, "Oh."

nm: What's the Portuguese name?

ezt: "Águas de Março".

nm: Okay. I'd have to check it out. I'm going to have to listen to it after this.

ezt: Oh well, I'm going to send you guys a link. It's one of my favorite songs of all time.

nm: I love these conversations. I love learning about new tracks. The funny thing I think about when you make music is-- I don't know maybe if other musicians vehemently disagree with this, but I get into a silo where I'm just so focused on the projects I'm working on that sometimes I'm not listening to other things. You miss stuff, and then people are like, "Well, have you heard this thing?" It's like, "I have no idea what you're talking about." Like, "Oh my God. Man, how can you not have-- You got to check this out." It's like, "Where have I been? I've been living under a rock. This is incredible." I love it. Thank you for sharing that with me.

ezt: Well, thank you for sharing all of your-- I didn't know most of who you guys were mentioning, so it gives me something to dig into as well. That's why I asked the question. Listen, you guys, this is awesome. This was a really fun conversation. I'm still fascinated by your process. Rob, I'm still very curious about really how you do this and the communication.

It's just interesting to think about-- Sometimes it's a corny point how we communicate through music, which we know on one level, but this brings up another level of communicating through music. You guys are communicating together. Nick, you're helping Rob communicate what he's trying to say. It's just interesting to do that musically, and it takes some special people to be able to do that. I'm glad to spend time with both of you because I think you both know exactly what you're doing when it comes down to this.

rw: Thank you.

nm: Thanks so much for having us.

ezt: You're very welcome.

nm: Yes, thank you.

ezt: Rob, when does the album actually come out?

rw: It comes out in May. I can't remember the exact date. I think we've got three more singles to go, but the vinyl pre-order is live. I think the next single comes out next week. I think it's on-

nm: April 2nd.

rw: -April 2nd. Nice one, Nick. You're always on top of things.

ezt: He's on top of it.

rw: Just really excited for the full album to be out there. Sometimes it's--

nm: May 9th, I just saw. May 9th.

rw: There you go. When people just get little bits and pieces from the singles, it is frustrating because it really is one long, progressive narrative. If it was up to me, then there would just be the release of the album in the way that Led Zeppelin released Led Zeppelin IV. No singles. I don't think I'm quite at that level yet, so I don't know.

ezt: That was a very different time, and so--

nm: Different attention economy.

ezt: That too. Robert, you're happy with the way the vinyl turned out. You got your test pressings, you're all done. That's the official one?

rw: Yes. It's sounding amazing. The artwork is amazing and there's loads of little Easter eggs, and the illustration that are connected to the track names, the narrative.

ezt: Really cool artwork, I meant to mention that. I know you're having trouble holding it up, and that's okay. I'll put a picture on the video. I can edit the picture in without it, actually. It's a miracle.

rw: Okay.

ezt: Tell me about the artwork there a little bit. It is very captivating.

rw: It's an artist called Jens Roth. He lives in Cologne in Germany. He has a good relationship with the label that this is coming out on, Melting Pot Music. He was really interested in the book and the ideas, and really went above and beyond to develop different concepts and to work with me again, just wanting to try to deliver exactly what it is I had imagined. Like I said, he went to another level. He didn't read the whole book, but he did research on the book and just added in details that if you keep looking at the front cover, you'll make connections to the music and the tracks. Super happy with that. There's nothing better than holding your own creation. It really is like a magical moment.

Because you've had space from the music production process, it sounds different. You forget all of those details that you were painstakingly agonizing over. It's almost like someone else's projects. You can listen to it as a bit of a music fan, which is much less agonizing, I have to say.

ezt: There's still a lot of these books too. I hope you're getting a cut of the publishing of these books, because everybody involved in this project has to buy a book.

rw: It's true. It should come with it, shouldn't it?

nm: It should come with a book.

ezt: It should. You should reach out to the publisher. Did you think of doing that? Letting them know that you did this?

rw: It's loosely linked. It's not 100% taking the exact narrative. I've not necessarily used the same names or anything like that, but it's a thought. The book came out in the '50s and the author is long gone, but it's an idea.

ezt: The estate might be interested. I'm always looking for something to do. Nick, when is your mixtape coming out? If folks are interested, if they're in the New York City area, you're there, what else could people be looking out for related to you?

nm: Actually, before the mixtape, I am very excited to share here, actually probably for one of the first announcements. I'm going to be releasing a remix that I did with Potatohead People, a couple guys from Vancouver. I don't know if you know Potatohead People. Just incredible jazzy funk artists. Did a remix of my track called Back To Life, which features a New York incredible drummer and MC, Doron Lev. That's coming out on April the 4th on all the platforms. Pre-save all that through my socials and things.

Then the mixtape itself, it's looking likely it's going to be August, September. Stay tuned on the socials, and I'll be doing plenty of posting about that. Remix and then this record with Rob, and then the mixtapes later on.

I was going to say real quick, I think it was worth mentioning that it's really great to have partners like Melting Pot putting out this record on their label, but they, I think, were really-- Rob, you can chime in maybe with additional thoughts, but I think they were also just really-- They seemed to have really good observations about how to connect the music to the visuals. I just wanted to say that.

rw: Yes, definitely. Thank God for some of these independent labels. They really are doing it for the love. I'm certainly not going to be making them a whole ton of money, but they do these projects because they believe in them, and they just want them to be in the world. It's very cool. They didn't ask me to change a single thing about this album, and there's some pretty weird moments on this album. [chuckles] They're not thinking about, "Oh, is this radio friendly?" They're like, "No, we want to deliver Rob's vision to the world." That's just an incredible thing.

There are so many independent labels that are-- they're making it work financially, and it's getting harder and harder and harder. There's more music coming out, there's less spaces on playlist. It's difficult to make it work, but they do, and I just thank God for those people.

ezt: They're going to try to place you on the next season of White Lotus or something. They're going to connect somewhere. You're going to be okay.

rw: Okay, great. That sounds awesome. I'm available.

nm: That would be ideal.

ezt: You should have named it White Lotus, The Next Season.

rw: [chuckles] It's true. I could have gotten sued though.

ezt: [chuckles] Maybe. No, you can't trademark a title. You can't copyright or trademark a title, you know.

rw: Okay.

ezt: That's right. You could write a song called Smells Like Teen Spirit and you can't get sued, I think. Something like that.

rw: That's a good hack. Might do that.

ezt: There you go. Fellas, thank you so much for your time today. Best of luck with this project. Nick, best of luck with your projects. It's a lot of great music, a lot of fun stuff to dig into, and I look forward to digging into it myself. I hope everybody listening takes a moment to do that as well.

rw: Thanks a lot.

nm: Thanks so much, Evan.

rw: Thanks, everybody.

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